Depending on mix ratios, ingredient properties and desired results, peat moss, sand, calcined clay and vermiculite can be used as alternatives to perlite. Ahoy, but I do see one application for this gravel glue messas a back-top alternative. In my experience a wire-brush + elbow grease will get *some* of it up, when its fresh. If the gator dust is failing so soon, AND there is such a gigantic cavity forming, one can imagine that there must be something wrong with the gravel foundation beneath the flagstones. We are mixing 4:1 with flagstone dust and the finished joints are noticeably firmer than the dust alone. You can make plastic from plants.and that may be less toxic and better for our eco system, than petrol-plastic. Youll be fine using screenings. Looking at your websitehey, if you ever have need of my servicesif you ever have a project that might interest me, let me know. Leave the joints about a 1/8 1/4 shy of the tops of the flagstones when youre finished. The industry standard for flagstone installation these days, is still basically to use the methods, tools and materials used in concrete paver installation and adapt them to natural flagstone. Patio I built in Northern California circa 2018. I was thinking something like this might work. Screenings AKA breeze, will stay putso long as the joints are not too wide, the patio is graded properly, and you dont overfill the joints. I am located near Blakeslee and want to get quality screenings for my flagstone project. Hi! We are having a dry laid, recto-linear patterned, natural cleft, blue stone patio installed by a professional landscaper, but I am a little worried about the size of some of the joints. Polyurethane coatings. I like your views and outlook so poly is out and screenings are in.not very keen on chemicals where the barefoot grandson walks! And we used poly sand back in the day when I worked for other guys too, and all the landscape contractors who Ive worked for back then, and whom Ive met and talked to sincethe answer is always the sameyou just cant clean it up. Its an 8 long stone, so now its sitting 2 high. Naturally it failed. We just put in a flagstone patio using decomposed granite in between the stones. Compare. Devin, thank you for the article and for your generosity in responding to questions/comments. Againdo not spray round-up or any other poison unto your patio. The thing is, you mix up gravel with a glue and you get this gravel soup and you dump it into place and rake it out and it slumps down nice and smooth. I probably have to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the cinderblock for visual appeal. A site visit could be arranged, if necessary. Best way that Ive found to remove that sort of haze is to just use a power washer. My new mason installed flagstone using polymeric sand. Thank you very much. Must be a west coast thing. Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. Devin, Thanks for the article. Really, the screenings are made ofsmall chips of stone, about one eighth of an inch in size, with tiny powder-like fine material mixed in as well. Gods peace. Kristi. Every time it rains, screening from my joints splatters into my stone and patio furniture. Rounded is not going to be very sturdybecause its rounded. This downward slope on each side will help with water runoff and prevent washouts. Any thoughts? Low void content, contains fines, is used as road foundations. Small voids may be left underneath your paving unitsespecially if you are using irregular natural stone. (The previous owners thought a pea gravel front yard would be nice as well - so I already have that on my plate to remove).I was wondering if anyone has tried to stabilize pea gravel using concrete sand, DG, or other material and tamping? The article above addresses flagstone joints in a dry laid applicationwith a gravel foundation. Anyway, I would like some advice on how you achieve such tight joints. Well I understand that the stones may be too small. 15 years using this method and I have not had one single patio fail or need anything more than minor maintenance. So one inch gaps, Im not sweating it too hard. Ive heard and read about some concerns about the limestone breaking down the flag over time, as well as concerns for efflorescence. Have a great summer. If the paver base is made up of 1/8 chips of stone, mixed up with smaller bits, much of which is so small that it is flour-like, then, well, its the right stuff. I thank you so very much. We have an existing flagstone patio which was built on a layer of crushed limestone with the same in between the flagstones. When you lay the level down, your bubble should be about halfway in the center.and you do not want much space beneath the level anyway.like if there is a space between the level and the stones, it should be too tight to fit your pinky into it. No problem. Polymeric sand will crack, over time. I only need a small quantity/bag? This site is a great service. The bricks are on now stable 1-2 dry sand beds. Weed and ant proof. Alas, Ive been a bit busy with tentacles and planetoids, and also with helping DIY enthusiasts with their own projects. Its popularity increased steadily for a decade and now it is a very common landscape product. I have mostly smaller spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to 3 wide. I plan to do a flagstone patio. Leave small joints, like 1/4. Not my favorite option, but not a huge problem so long as b) they fit the stones tight enough. Will dry up to a fairly hard surface. Step 2 - Install the Base. and you want to come up with a dry joint, that has the same color. Do you recommend using cement/sand mortar combination or to go with stone dust. Other solutions, please? Do not use polymeric sand with flagstone. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. I want to use decomposed granite or a similar natural product, other than sand, that is tan in color instead of grey. ( said with a Japanese accent):). Pea gravel comes loose and gets everywhere, so Id avoid that. But maybe some minor irregularity of the pitch and/or grading around the patio caused water to heavily move through one area. Sounds like a winner, right? DIY hardscape/masonry/flagstone help rates: I am happy to offer all of these DIY flagstone articles for free. the process of building a dry stone sphere, for me, is always a cosmic and transformitive experience. When gravel shifts, it can expose the weed cloth underneath, letting weeds overtake the edges of your gravel walkway or driveway. Id suggest just using a few handfuls of gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material too large to simply wash out. 22 Reviews. I am not wedded to those tumbled red steppers. Sweeping sand into the joints is one way to go about it.read the article, for other suggestions , Or, check out this great article here: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-what-to-use-sand-cement-or-gravel/. For urine & feces odor control I spray the kennels occasionally with yard odor killer, which works great.I don't use cement because it is damaging to the dogs pads.To address my problem:I have a long driveway made with reject ab. I would not recommend sand for in between flagstone joints. Quikrete Assorted All-Purpose Gravel 50 lb. This can trouble novices and pros alike. Its an old articlebut its been updated recently. The manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand. SHORT ANSWER: get some stone dust aka screenings. Best thing you can do to extend the life of your patio mortar joints, living in Colorado or any place with harsh wintersis to stay on top of the snow. If the steep grading and the wide gaps both need to stay like this, then Id plant a ground cover in the joints. Required fields are marked *. Polymeric sand is no good. No freeze-thaw issues. A little bit more, less than a quarter of a ton for the joints. Should I try to hammer drill the mortar grout out? 1. What to put between flagstone jointspolymeric sand or stone dust? Clean off dust and lightly dampen the old cracked polymeric sand. What is pea gravel. Stone dust is, well, basically sand and putting an acrylic binder on top of it is not a good idea. Great information and helpful blog! As such, my recommendation is clearstay with the decomposed granite! Is this stone in question local, or otherwise desireable to you? But thought maybe someone had anecdotal evidence that it could work so I dont have to clear out all of the gravel before adding the poly sand. When selecting your base rock, make sure to pick rough gravel that is large enough to allow the pointy edges to interlock and heavy enough not to be washed away in a storm. Spread sand over the surface of the concrete and pea gravel. Would you suggest minus (I believe here in eastern Mo. I did not want to mention this optionbecause I do not like it. Wanted to check with you the cheapest way to do it under 2K if possible? I plan on using a thicker layer of concrete sand below the stone, (up to six inches); thick enough so that it accommodates the irregular thickness, and providing me a flat stone surface on top. The contractor used a Portland lime & sand mortar beige color by Spec Mix between the stones. Some pieces are 2 thick x 12 long by 4 widesome are 3/4 to 1 thick 1010 size, with only a handful ideal size pieces to keep it anchored together, i suppose. 2 or 3? I prefer smaller joints. You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. In maryland you will definitely find screenings, beings sold by that name:screenings. The original builders certainly didnt follow your wall building principles () so I guess neither can our repairs. DG will work the same. Not a big fan of waterproofing goop being sprayed into stone screenings either. In a few places where pressure washing has removed the soil, I filled the joints with the rock screening you recommend. You need a foundation of compacted road base gravel. The reason for a well compacted foundation of road base or something similar is thisroad base can be compacted and yet remains well draining. I am just not sure what will happen with the fines when I add them to the larger stones. Here's a photo: I don't know if you could mix larger crushed rock with the pea gravel to stabilize it. Hi Devin, Really helpful articles on flagstone. You basically pour the product over existing gravel surfaces and let it dry to keep gravel in place. remove it and install 1 1/2 size river rock. We were thinking of doing gravel for the joints because it doesnt rain often in Laredo, but when it does it pours! You may have to wait a few months since he is sought after like that, but he, does travel to new jersey. Thanks for telling me the plastic approach is lame. The, after laying the flagstone you re-plant the sod between the stones. If a project interests me I can be convinced to travel. Compacting the gravel will also help keep weeds from coming through. Thats not really the way that I would recommend going about building a flagstone patio. I filled each joint half full and then ran a light plate compactor (with rubber protector matt between the plate and the stone this vibrated the sand down into all the voids at the bottom of each joint) then I came back through with the grout bag and filled the joint to the approximately 1/8th of an inch below the top surface of the flagstone. It's been over 5 years, and still doing good, although I've had to add a few bags of mulch here and there. Either fulling the joints with soil and seeding, or, during the excavtion Ill carefully remove the sodthe grass itself plus 2 of soil and roots along with it. I might get a bag and experiment with a small section, maybe at the start of the driveway. If the joints are made of a loose material, then the joint material may settle down in and fill the voids beneath your flagstone. The article goes into more detail. So I prefer the powdery-dry methodif Im working solo, usually. Well, if the foundation and pitch all seem decent, then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust and replacing with stone dust. Related Content: How Much Does Pea Gravel Cost? Once all the stones are laid, sweep more screenings into the joints. Heres an application that is somewhat unique, and problematic so far. What is the best crack filler between a natural flagstone patio. Even grass seed maybe. It just doe not look right, does not at all have the look and feel of real gravel. Get a product called gravel lok or a pebble binder product use them a lot they work great. Tell a friend and stuff. I really don't know what I'm doing so any tips are appreciated. Please consider it for a minute. Pea gravel is highly desirable as it is versatile and cost-effective. Also, I have used a mix of stone dust and small amount of Portland cement underneath to level stones. Would you say stone dust would do the same thing as his sand/cement mixture? Privacy Policy. The joint however stays put.now you have a hollow void, either underneath the stone, or just beneath the joint. Three potential problems remain however a) the flagstones are on sand. Dig down to mineral soil, clay/sand, you dont want to build on top of organic material. This is in New Jersey by the way. STone flour, such a fine dust that dampening it somewhat, sorta binds it up. Flagstone, and such-like. Looks like the flagstone was set in a concrete base. https://www.devineescapes.com/how-to-clean-dry-laid-flagstone/%, Third heading down, How to install stone dust in between your flagstones, Basically, sweep the stone dust into the joints, sweep up the excess, hose down on shower setting, repeat. Hi Devin. In that caseId just use sand. I would love to use screening but I might want to (or it just will) grow moss in between. Had a similar problem when we bought our current property. &When i say irregular, i mean irregular. Their concrete was too wet and/or they overworked it, troweled it too much and brought too much water to the surface. Next, snap the pavers into place over the top of the gravel and fill the empty cells with more pea gravel. Hello.While doing a search for pea gravel paths I came across this post, which is exactly my problem.Did anyone ever come up with a solution?OP, how did you solve your problem?Thanks for amy help out there. Theres a lot of different ways to go about getting a flagstone stable. At 1200 square feet youre going to need a triaxle load of gravel.give or take, depending on the required depth. Anyway, theres many diy articles on this website, which many people have found helpful over the years. The material will settle when you hose it down, so repeat. Id love to find something natural in a deep blu to go with the bluestone. I wonder if mixing the top layer of pebbles with stone dust might not stabilize your pea gravel somewhat, kind of like crusher run?. This system is somewhat self-healing. Fact is, no one really uses it, so I never encounter examples of good, or bad installations using the product. I think your solution is the answer. Yes I have run experiments oin differenat areas of the patio and have used different amts of water with the same results. Always spec and use 'sharp' sand. Then, clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter. I used stone dust under as a base and then screened gravel (sand). I just completed a four month long project laying 800 sf of irregular Pennsylvania Blue flagstone (variable thickness stone of 1.5 to 2.25 inches think); at our house in Seattle, WA. But after reading your postings I am not sure what to do. I just installed a natural stone patio and was researching poly sand for filling the cracks when I came across your article. I wish I had read the forum BEFORE listening to the landscaper. Thats not a problem for stone dust, whereas poly sand, in a shifty situation, will crack up and be a problem. Just finished laying a patio of large natural stone2-4 thick in a shaded area. I have a great photo showing this that I will email you separately. Now picture that scenario with a rigid joint. Screenings are sold by the name screenings in New Jerseyalthough some places may use the name grit or stone dust. I have thought of using the polymeric sand to keep out both as much as possible. The local product I found looks identical to yours. Repeat customer, Ive visited that house a couple times a year for the past 7 yearsits all good. In fact.whereas I am opposed to using cement in the joints, especially if there is no concrete foundationi can at least see a reason to use cement there: trying to avoid weeds, and looking for a stable joint. Would appreciate your advice. Sorry, this website is all about natural stone. But wait, the limestone dust that you have access to is just flour? I was tempted to use the leftover poly sand from our paved project on our flagstones which already have screenings between them because after a good rain lots of stone chips pop up onto the flagstones making it unpleasant to walk on with bare feet. Some are 10 years with no problems. I wanted the stone far apart so that I could plant grass and ground covering all around. Best answer: just use gravel. Polymeric sand is no good. Sure, you could do that. Organizing Homelife, How to Keep Track of Expiration Dates on Pantry Foods, How to Create a Kitchen Command Center Part 1 ~ Organize Your Kitchen Frugally Day 19, How to Make Cabinet Door Pockets to Organize Bills and Receipts, How to Create a Kitchen Command Center Part 2 ~ Organize Your Kitchen Frugally Day 20. I was not thrilled with it at the time but time and money influenced our decision. Ive been researching decomposed granite and want to use that but cannot find a place to buy it. Not sure DG would drain properly with the cement base. Worms? The next step is to install the base. Id just power wash the whole thing., some joint material may bust loose just from the water.Then Id take a large flathead screwdriver and start prying out joint material. Good luck with your flagstone project! Ive tried my best and I hope this helpseither helps you to confidently tackle the projector helps you to decide to just hire a good mason. Maybe lay 2 inches and tamp that, lay the top layer and leave that loose. pressure washing will definitely break screenings/decomposed granite loose from the joints. Do a search for how to propagate moss. I think Ill try the screening stuff. Youre the best source for flagstone info on the net. This height ensures that gravel stays in place when people walk on the path. The problem I realize now is that the sand is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on them. Its important to compact it thoroughly with a heavy-duty roller. Ive seen many walkways made with only stone dust/decomposed granite. Ill keep trying to keep the fit tight and corners flat. Can you help me understand the difference between decomposed granite and screenings? No maintenance issues there. If you set your flagstones upon a gravel foundation/on a bed of sand or stone dustthen fill your joints with stone dust. Nor would I use any sort of caulk. great article wish I would have read it before installing my pavers. Here, joints were intentionally left 4 to 8 wideand the space between them was filled with sod. In short: sweep the stone dust into the joints, hose down. Any ideas for adding curb appeal to this small house? Hi Devin, Ive loved to play with rocks and recently did some work at our camp on Moosehead Lake (ME). Hi, the home we own in Colorado has a really large flagstone patio but the previous owner never put in any fillers. I dont know if it would do any harm though, but it might. To make the path very stable, you can also add a layer of decomposed granite after the base rock and before the pea gravel is placed. The first option that I gave will not keep 100 percent of the gravel in placebut most of it, yesand if you remember to use modified gravel, gravel with smaller chips and stone dust in it, then it should feel pretty sturdy underfoot. If using sand rather than stone dust, then you should try and keep the sand depth to an inch or so. You never joint with mortar in a dry laid scenario. Stone thicknesses range from 1 1/4 2 1/4. Ants love sand, sand washes out more easily than stone dust, so Id remove the sand and replace with stone dust. Natural flagstone, concrete paver and ceramic brick patios and walkways are set upon gravel foundations, their joints then need to be filled. Furthermore, the polymeric sand stays in place because it is glued together and also glued to the stones or bricks it is placed between. AM I missing anything? The gaps range from 1/4 1 between stones. My contractor is out of business so I cant even get hold of him. Sweep in, hose down on shower setting, repeat.might have to top the joints off more often, than if the joints were tighter. 1/8 sized small stone chips and also fine, flour-like dust particles. I can say without reservation that you should repair the flagstone patio that you haveand never replace it with stamped concrete. I wish everyone would do that. En Oh spells nope, just dont do it, ever. Wow thanks for those great articles! I just need big money plus artistic license/free reign! If your patio is built upon a concrete foundation then you want to repair the joints with mortar. After 4 months, it starts to have wavy driveway. My process is described in this article: how to fill flagstone joints. Gravel-Lok - Amber Color - 50 Gallon. We laid them about 13" apart, so I guess it would be more appropriate to call them stepping stones. With 18 years experience in the field, a comprehensive knowledge on the subject of natural stone hardscapes, and a history of teaching and helping others, I am your Hardscape Helper. com should give you all the help you need in this regard. I would then proceed to use screening in between joints. Due to the irregularity of the stones the cracks are from 1-4 wide. Then we mixed a ratio of 2 parts mortar to 1 part pea gravel. Related content: dry stone spheres by Devin Devine. I don't think he was looking to make bumpsjust kinda level it outoysorry..lol, you so funny! I am planning to level the ground and place landscaping cloth below crushing and lay stone tiles. On the note of odor, there are products you can hook up to your hose pipe to breakdown dog waste and odors. This year we had the finances to redo it (had our concrete co. remove it) with Connecticut Bluestone slate. I appreciate the advice. It does shift when the dogs play or work here. It is not a plastic based material, it is from psyllium husks. Just wondering what we should do about the paver sand underneath. Fly me out there and Ill make em fit nice, get some local ahem pro to do it right or maybe try some ground cover planting. So, I gave up on that. Screenings are not the same as polymeric sand. We are a team of passionate homeowners, home improvement pros, and DIY enthusiasts who enjoy sharing home improvement, housekeeping, decorating, and more with other homeowners! If stone chips are getting all over the surface of your flagstone, then the joints are probably over filled. I live in Seattle, and Im installing a flagstone pathway in my lawn. Good luck with your flagstone project . My patio is quite old 30 years, or more. Patio is sloped but not very much. Some of the stones youre showing me look a bit on the small side. I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between flagstones. Also can I expect your comment via email or simply on this site? Ive never seen any ratio of cement to stone dust/sand that works. Polymeric sand is not a good option for either sort of foundation. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? and then we would lay down the stone and grout the joints with the gravel. D-limonene. I like the idea of the screenings but do we now have to remove all of the sand? Will water flow over the flagstones to the drain with dry set stones, or do i need to do something totally different? The thing is.I dont think sealing the joints would really help much. When Im done, the joint material will be about a quarter inch from the tops of the stones. Great article. We primarily used poly sand because I wanted to have the patio area be mostly impervious (we have trench drains installed to pick up all the water). Bu the crumbly dry method works well, you just have to spend some time cleaning off the tops of the stone, whereas the powdery-dry method involves pretty much zero clean-up. Quikrete Gray Sand/Topping Mix 60 lb. The larger material will help to jam up the drainage-cut, making it so less fines settle down below the concrete, while still letting water drain. 903 landscape supply is the place: https://www.903inc.com/. https://highlandls.com/product/3-8-crushed-basalt/.

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